Benjamin Rudnick

My good friend Mehdi the Moroccan (aka Mehdi Terranean) recently inspired a me to expand my entrepreneurial horizons into the realm of food franchises. Being that he is from Morocco, and of the Berber people…[and really likes hamburgers]…we have decided to open up a new chain of restaurants called Berber Burgers. These lovely offerings will contain spices from northwest Africa, Spain, France, and other lovely countries We haven't really thought past that, and really this is just me amusing myself by wanting to rank for the term "Berber Burgers". We nerds do things like this, its our version of fun ;p Anyway, if you are reading this, you are either doing research on me and for some odd reason, despite the fact that i blog once per quarter, are reading this blog…or 2, you are Mehdi. Hmm, now that i think of it, i wonder if I can rank for the conveniently obscure name, Mehdi Taifi. Its fun to say, right! OK, now im gonna go sneak a few links in somewhere and see what happens. In the words of the great R&B group Blackstreet…play on play on play on playaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Not too long ago, my good friend Lena West who writes for Fast Company and Entrepreneur hooked me up with the host of The Kitchen Table Entrepreneur, Jackie Rogers. Jackie hosts a weekly Internet Radio show on the Voice America Network and asked if I would do an interview regarding SEO and Social Networking. Below is a transcript of the interview, which can also be heard by clicking here:

1.    What were you doing before you became involved with internet marketing and project management?

Well, like most entrepreneurs, I tried a variety of different business ideas. But formally I am a student. I received my undergraduate degree in Finance, then went back for my M.B.A. with a specialization in Entrepreneurship. Also, While I was finishing grad school, I started working with a tech-startup based here in Orlando, where I eventually became Director of Operations.

2.    We’ve talked about this on the show before, but for the uninformed; what is Search Engine Optimization?

Technically, SEO is the practice of Optimizing websites by improving “on”, and “off-page”  factors in an effort to gain more exposure in search engines.
To simplify , “Think of search this way. Search Engines have two different goals:
1.    to index the pages on the web, and
2.    to deliver relevant results to searchers
In order for them to index the web and deliver relevant results, the engines need to be able to access all the pages on your site and understand what they’re about.
SEO experts are skilled in guiding the engines through a site in a way that enables them to discover more of your web pages, and by providing information that helps the engines understand your content. Basically, SEO is really about understanding the capabilities of the engines and working with them to help determine relevance.”

3.    Why is it called an embryonic science or is it even a science but instead a group of sciences from different fields?

SEO is definitely comprised of multiple sciences…everything from human psychology to the understanding of Information Systems. I also like to think that SEO somewhat an art, cause  there is plenty of room to be creative!

4.    What would you say makes SEO so valuable as both a sales and marketing tool?

Its all about the reach. When trying to sell or market anything, you want to have a large reach, and preferably to a target audience. Search traffic does just that… it extends your reach, and more importantly…brings you traffic that is already looking for what you provide.

5.    Would you say the rise of Google brought an increased awareness of SEO?

To say the least! And I think that’s mainly because google created an awareness of search, which gave rise to an abundance of SEO’s. However, SEO was around pre-google, just in a different way. What google actually did was create a new method of ranking sites, so the SEO’s had to adjust. Not only that, but once the search space leveled out, and only 3 players were left standing (google, yahoo, and msft), SEO’s had to figure out how to understand all 3 engines. Over the past few years, google has pulled so far away (capturing almost 70% of all searches), SEO’s just focus mainly on google, and ‘take what they can” from the other engines.

6.    Is there a snowball’s chance in hell in having SEO implemented on your website without spending a fortune?

This is one of those questions that we hear all the time, and the answer is…It depends! Are there things that you can do that will cost you nothing, and will have a significant impact…absolutely! But if you a large company or brand…and you have never invested in SEO…you might as well just put it in your budget. Because if you don’t, I guarantee your competitor is!

8.    Let’s talk about ranking, many of us pull up something on Google and note the page rank reported in the toolbar, but I’ve read that’s not really an accurate reading true or false?

Most SEO’s really don’t look at page rank as a meaningful metric anymore. It used to mean a lot more, but we find google tampering with it and almost using it to throw people off. However, even if it were working properly, we still wouldn’t use it as a meaningful metric. Without getting too deep into page rank, you can think of it as being comprised of numerical value, and topical value. The little green toolbar is only representing a number, so by itself it doesn’t mean that much. Easy answer is, wouldn’t waste any time worrying about it…I don’t!

9.    A few years back, we were told to load up our websites with keywords to achieve a high ranking but that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore; explain.

Yeah, this was back when the keywords on the page were one of the most important factors. Today google has over 200 different variables in their algorithm, and while it is important to have the correct terminology on a page, “keyword stuffing” will only get you penalized. What is important to know, is that if you want a page to rank for a certain phrase, you’re going to have to use it a couple times on the page. but…my cardinal rule is… Never sacrifice readability and sensibility for the sake of squeezing in a keyword. Write naturally, and write for your audience.

10.    Speaking of keywords, there’s text written for humans and there’s text written for search engines; what is the difference and why is this important?

Some information is intended for your use but some information is meant to be an instruction for the search engine. It’s obviously important to create content that it is engaging for your users, but if you want to attract visitors from search, you have to know how to “sweet talk” the engines. Certain things like telling them which pages to visit, which pages are most important, or what a page is about… are some good examples.

11.    What’s an anchor text?

Anchor text is simply the words used in a link. When you see a nice blue underlined link, if it says “click here”, than that is the anchor text. When someone links to your site (or when you link to yourself from within your site), the anchor text you use is very important, as it passes semantic value to the page it links to. So, passing the value of  “click here” isn’t going to help you rank for anything, but if your trying to rank for something like “new iphone”, you should probably use that as the anchor text.

12.    What are some of the other elements a well designed website should have besides meaningful content?

In regards to SEO, you want to have good navigation (with proper anchor text of course), good internal linking…and something a lot of people miss, is good external linking. Google really seems to reward linking out to other experts in your field, or trusted sites. We are definitely seeing this more and more over time. Another thing you want to consider is multiple forms of engagement with your audience, meaning pictures, a blog, videos, etc

13.    Define for our audience what a link is and what’s the consensus regarding link building to achieve a high ranking?

Well, google uses a link based algorithm, so link building is essential to any SEO effort. The general consensus is…don’t buy links in a way that makes it seem like you are trying to manipulate rankings! With that being said, there are many ways to EARN links, and being proactive about it is crucial!

14.    Would you say the buying links diminishes the authenticity of who’s searching for you?

Not exactly. If you are an online flower shop, and you buy some links on blogs that talk about flowers, than you are really just marketing to your niche.

15.    Do you have any figures on the average time a person spends on a website?

Yes…It depends! Some websites are geared towards fast conversions, so they are not looking to have people spend lots of time on their sites. And some are geared towards lengthy engagement. I think the point is, figure out what you are trying to achieve…everyone’s audience is different.

16.    When you look or review a website; what is the “value test”?

Great question! I think the first thing people do when they land on a new website, is instantly determine whether they can trust the site. This comes from the design, the overall appeal, and the professionalism. This all happens in first second. The next second is spent scanning the headlines, or the content that grabs my attention…I then make the decision to read more. If im still there, I’ll spend maybe another 3-5 seconds really scanning the content and links on a page, and if im not sold…im out! But remember…that’s me, and I probably visit an average of 30-50 new websites per day.

17.    Having said all this, you’ve said that someone who really understands SEO should be building their own properties. For those of us who don’t really understand it and want to hire someone who does; what kind of questions should we ask?

This is very important, and im glad you brought this up. I think the best thing to do is ask for examples of someone’s work, and even ask to speak to one of their old clients. The way the industry is right now, there is so much more demand for SEO services than there are true SEO’s to do the work. This has created a whole second tier of SEO’s who provide 3 yr old advice they got from reading blogs. SEO changes pretty fast, and unless someone is passionate about it, they probably don’t spend enough time studying it.

18.    Even without money being an object; how long does it take to achieve a ranking of note?

I think you know what im gonna say…it depends! If you are trying to rank for left handed turkey basters…I can probably have you at # 1 in under 2 weeks. If you are trying to rank for “new iphone”…well, good luck!

19.    What is the “Swarm Theory” and secondly what does it have to do with SEO?

Swarm Theory suggests that large groups of simple intelligences can solve complex problems very efficiently. It actually offers us another way to look at how the SEO community chooses its methodologies, and learn from it. Actually, Michael Martinez just wrote a great article about this on his blog www.seo-theory.com called Swarm Theory and SEO Communities. He explains it much better than I can

20.    Do you think social networks have surpassed websites as vehicles for internet marketing?

I’m not sure if the numbers say so, but conceptually…yes! What social networks provide is an attentive group of people gathered around a common interest, so if your product or service thrives in a social environment, than I would definitely put some attention there. However, internet crowds are quick to dog on something bad…so make sure your offering is on pint b4 putting it out there!

21.    Instead of creating a Broadway production, is simpler better when it comes to website design?

As usual…it depends! It all depends on your product, your audience, your brand, yor message, etc. Google is an extreme case of simplicity, I don’t actually think it gets any simpler than google.com. however, I don’t think that strategy would work for Cirqu Du Soleil, or a site that requires some business.

22.    Speaking of simple; there are some new search engines available; would you talk about Cuil for a moment?

Cuil prides itself being the largest index, but im not personally sold on that being a good thing. Just because a library has more books, doesn’t make them good. It actually just makes it tought to find the good ones! if you want to try a neat search engine, check out searchme.com, its a visual search engine with really neat suggestion tools.

23.    Is there anything new in SEO that you can tell us in layman’s terms?

Sure. Google is definitely moving in the direction of personalized, and universal search results. You are already seeing maps, news, books and videos showing up in regular search results. This opens up the field much greater , and forces you to think about all of these different avenues. Most importantly, is to do things naturally. If a site looks overoptimized, it probably is, and its goingto get penalized. I heard it put best like this: Major in marketing, and minor in SEO. If you want to get the basics down, which everyone should…just go visit Aaron Walls site (www.seobook.com) and purchase the SEO book. It’s under $100 and a must read for anyone looking to take advantage of the benefits of seo. Easy to read and understand, and you will defiantely gain a wealth of knowledge.

24.    What’s next for Benjamin Rudnick?

I am currently involved in a project that will hopefully make a huge impact on society. It’s a Cancer Social Network for all people affected by the disease…called KnowCancer, and we hope to breathe some new life into this community and help people get the support, education and resources they need. if you get a chance, please check it out at Knowcancer.com
Thank you so much Ben visiting with us at the Kitchen Table Entrepreneur.  It is said that the SEO Theorist is constantly asking why, how and what’s next. It’s the same or it should be the same with us business owners. We should constantly be asking why, how and what’s next as we search for customers and search for better ways to serve them. I am your host Jackie Rogers and you have been listening to the VoiceAmerica.com broadcast of the Kitchen Table Entrepreneur.

Alright… so far we have put SEO into Context, conducted our Keyword Research and put together a logical Site Architecture. Now it’s time to tie it all together with a smart Internal Linking Strategy!

Internal Linking
Linking within your website can be done many ways, such as:
•    Primary navigation
•    Left-hand (secondary) navigation
•    Footer Navigation
•    Breadcrumbs
•    From within the site copy or article, or
•    Inside a widget or module
The important thing to remember is to determine the pages on your website that matter the most, and make sure they are linked to from most (if not all) of the pages on your site. Also, make sure to keep those keywords in mind when creating the anchor text for those links

External Linking
Most of the webmasters I know who (claim to) understand PageRank, think that linking out is bad. They seem to think “Why should I share my PageRank with other sites?” Well,this is why…because there is more than one factor to ranking, and because the Search engines want you to be an expert on your topic. And how could you possibly be an expert if you don’t link out to other experts!?

Inbound Links
So… we’ve saved the best for last! Once webmasters start to get this SEO thing and understand the value of inbound links, the very next question is…”How do I get people to link to me?” Great question! I have worked with some of the best Link Developers in the country, as well as built my own in-house link team…and the options are threefold:
•    Earn them!
•    Ask for them!
•    Buy them!

Let me go ahead on the record by saying that regardless of my theoretical opinion on purchasing links, the Google Webmaster Guidelines clearly states that buying links for the purpose of manipulating search rankings can get your site penalized or even banned from the search engines. So don’t do it!!

Well that wraps up this beginner series on SEO…I hope it was helpful. If I had to summarize, I think the big takeaway is that SEO is a long-term strategy that includes:
•    Understanding your audience (keyword research)
•    Creating a solid foundation (site architecture)
•    Positioning yourself as an expert (external & inbound linking)

…and ultimately, helping the engines to understand what your site is about!

Possibly one of the most widely overlooked aspects of SEO is Site Architecture. Most SEO’s would agree that your URL structure and the keywords used within the URL structure make a significant difference in ranking. If you think about it, a URL structure is just a set of folders or categories. So when you look at setting up your site, start by creating a taxonomy of the keyword groupings you got from your Keyword Research. For example, if your site is about Conditions and Diseases, then your Breast Cancer page should look something like this:

yourdomain.com/diseases/cancer/breast-cancer/

…as opposed to this:

yourdomain.com/di/289?=77/44/index.html

In the first post in this series titled SEO In Context, I mentioned that it is important to help the search engines understand what your site is about, and Information Architecture should be at the top of the list.

Another thing you can do to reinforce the topical relevance within a given section is to create a breadcrumb that links back up the taxonomy. For the example above, the breadcrumb might read as such:

Health > Diseases and Conditions > Cancer > Breast Cancer

These two things should really help to improve the overall structure of your site… and when combined good content and proper keyword research should help to improve rankings.

The only left is a solid linking strategy

Alright, so you’ve decided to join the crowd and figure this SEO thing out…now where do I start?

Let’s look at it like this…there are probably thousands of people already looking for your product or service and  all you have to do is get in front of them. THIS, is what keyword research if for…to understand exactly how your audience searches for your offerings. Whenever I begin a project, be it consulting or one of my own…the very first thing I do is conduct keyword research.

Where do I find these keywords?

It seems that the general consensus among SEO’s goes something like this. You can and should use the major Keyword Research Tools like these:
•    Wordtracker
•    Keyword Discovery
•    Wordze
…as well as the Google Adwords Keyword Suggestion tool! Just don’t assume that the numbers are exact, rather look at them in proportion to each other.

The last tool is not a subscription based service or some crazy toolbar plugin add-on that “Joe the Search Marketer” wrote. It’s you!! And all of that incredibly valuable industry knowledge you bring to the table!
This is why I suggest that when doing your keyword research, start out by making a list of all of the terms that you “think” people would search for. Next, take a look at your competitors and see what words and phrases they emphasize. Then, take that list and run them thorough the various tools. Once you have your master lists, group them by topic and viola…Keyword Research!

Where do I put these keywords?

This goes back to the idea we spoke about last week regarding helping Google to understand what your site is about. On any given page, there are a few major places that you want to make sure to include your keywords. These include:
•    URL
•    Site Copy
•    Meta Title
•    Meta Description
•    Meta Keywords
•    Header Tags
•    Image alt Text

Now I can’t emphasize my next point enough, so I will do the unthinkable and put it in all caps: DO NOT SACRIFICE READABILITY FOR KEYWORD USAGE!! Google…as well as your readers…likes things to look and feel natural. I like to think of it as building a site for users while keeping Keywords in mind, rather than the other way around.

Well, that does it for Keyword Research… up next Site Architecture!

Cheers!